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In hmolscience, debate (TR:144) (LH:1) (TL:145) is a heated-discussion between two or more people on a disagreed upon topic, subject, or point of view.


The following is a chronological listing of the top hmolscience-related key debates:

Year Pro Con Topic Name Summary Grounds
475BC Heraclitus Parmenides Being and void Heraclitus said the void exists; Parmenides said the void or vacuum does not exist, per reason that "being" would then go into "non-being", which was an anathema to him.[1] This resulted in the "nature abhors a vacuum" ideology, championed by Aristotle, not disproved until vacuum making experiments of Galileo and Otto Guericke; which led to the invention of the steam engine, and hence thermodynamics.[2]
Pierre Maupertuis Denis Diderot Maupertuis-Diderot debate[3] Maupertuis, in his System of Nature: Essay on Organized Bodies, spoke about “molecules” endowed with “desire, memory, and intelligence”; Diderot refuted, they both accused each other of atheism.
1810 Goethe Christopher Wieland Human chemical theory Wieland called Goethe's human chemical theory as "childish nonsense and fooling around"; the discussion split people into “enemies”[4] and “admirers”[5] of Goethe’s theory. Religious
1833 William Whewell Samuel Coleridge Real science 1833 BAAS debate[6] The religion encompassing term "natural philosopher" was beginning to loose sway; the question became what someone who works in the ‘real sciences’, as Coleridge had phrased it, should be called? Result: the term "scientist" (Whewell, 1834) was coined.
1860 Thomas Huxley Samuel Wilberforce Evolution Huxley defended Darwin; Wilberforce asked Huxley which of his grandparents was the "biggest ape?", Huxley refuted harshly.[7] Religious
Karl Zollner
Ludwig Boltzmann
Name[8] The specifics of this debate are in need of analysis; Boltzmann called Schopenhauer a "mindless, ignorant, spreader of nonsense"[9] Helmholtz objected to the romanticism [?] of Zollner[10][11] ?
1875 John Tyndall
James Maxwell
Balfour Stewart
Peter Tait
Religion vs science 1875 BAAS debate[12] Debate was centered on the question of what happens when a person dies and "continuity theory", give or take. Religious
Ludwig Boltzmann
Max Planck
Walther Nernst
Felix Klein
Arthur Oettingen
Arnold Sommerfeld
George Helm
Wilhelm Ostwald
Ernst Mach
Energetics debate The con side argued that all was energy, and that atoms did not exist; results: Boltzmann committed suicide (Sep, 1906) and Ostwald recanted (1909) his denial of the existence of atom, and formerly corrected his error in his fourth edition of his Fundamentals of General Chemistry, following new empirical demonstrations of the existence of the atom (Jean Perrin, Ernest Rutherford, Frederick Soddy, and J.J. Thomson, in the period 1902-1906).
1897 Winiarski
Leon Walras
Pareto Social entropy ?
James Swinburne
Max Planck
Oliver Lodge Entropy What is entropy debate[13]
1925 Clarence Darrow William Bryan Evolution John Butler got a law passed in Tennessee which made the teaching of evolution in school illegal[14]; a national debate erupted; the film Inherent in the Wind (1960) captures the event.
Lawrence Henderson Pitirim Sorokin Harvard-Pareto circle[15] Religious
1934 Frederick Donnan
Edward Guggenheim
James Jeans Life and second law Jeans suppositioned that "life" has the ability to "evade" the second law; Donnan and Guggenheim refuted.[16]
1938 Entropy and life Took place at University of France, themed on Charles Guye's 1920 statement: “How is it possible to understand life, when the whole world is ruled by the second law of thermodynamics, which points towards death and annihilation?”
1946 Percy Bridgman
Leon Brillouin
Life Harvard what is life debate It was a "what is life in terms of physics and chemistry debate"; possibly a ramification of Schrodinger's 1943 What is Life? lecture; a result was the Bridgman paradox.[17] ?
1964 James Lovelock Life detection Jet Propulsion Laboratory at CalTech was being funded by NASA to construct and design two probes (Voyager 1 and Voyager 2) to be sent to Mars in the upcoming 1977

Voyager mission to Mars; a debate erupted on how to engineer a device to theoretically be able to recognize life, e.g. "Martian life"; Lovelock argued that such a device should be able to measure or “look for an entropy reduction".

1966 Francis Crick
Gunther Stent
Michael Polanyi
Walter Elsasser
Peter Mora
Eugene Wigner
Hans Dreish
Henri Bergson
Pierre Teilhard
Neo-vitalism Crick refuted all neo-vitalism and being but closet Christianity arguments; he suggested that the term "alive" should be abandoned.[18] Religious
2006 Ernest Eliel
Harold Leonard
Todd Silverstein
Joel Janin
John Wojcik
Philip Moriarty
Rossini debate[19] Religious
Michael Brooks
Libb Thims
Ted Erikson
Jeff Tuhtan
David Bossens
David Busse
Georgi Gladyshev
DMR Sekhar
Vangelis Stamatopoulos
Origin of life Defunct theory of life debate Gladyshev, being the author of Thermodynamics Theory of the Evolution of Living Beings (1997), could not explain to Thims, the author of Human Chemistry (2007), with it's "Molecular Evolution" chapter, wherein the point of "life" origin, hydrogen to human, was called into question, the mechanism in respect to what "day", in respect to the course of evolution, a "living being" comes into existence, thermodynamically speaking. ?
2009 Libb Thims
Wolfgang Muschik
Robert Kenoun
Peter Pogany
Ingo Muller
Jing Chen
Philip Moriarty
Frank Lambert
Bruce Bathurst
Aaron Agassi
Entropy of group of students Moriarty-Thims debate[20] Anthropism
2014 Bill Nye Ken Ham Science vs creation Note 8M+ viewed YouTube streamed debated[21], which took place at the Ark Encounter on; Ken Ham kept throwing the term "molecules to man evolution"[22] at Nye, who didn't know how to respond? Religion
2020 Libb Thims
Dilip Kondepudi
Seth Lloyd
Wassim Haddad
Ram Poudel
Gerard Nahum
Terrence Deacon
Themis Matsoukas
Information vs entropy Basically, since the "Shannon bandwagon" (1949) began to play music, people have been drawn to the confused idea that entropy = information, and that thermodynamics can be reduced to bits; Poudel wanted to have a "Thermodynamics 2.0" conference themed on (a) Natural Science meets Social Science" and (b) "information is more fundamental than" energy and information; Thims refuted all of this as Sokal affair ignorance (see: information entropy quotes).[23] Anthropism


The following are quotes:

“Although there is an ongoing debate among economists and natural scientists on the relevance of the laws of thermodynamics for the performance of economic systems, [invariably] physical laws govern production and consumption processes in a fundamental way. A world constrained by the laws of thermodynamics ultimately alters its structure through transformation of matter and dissipation of energy.”
— Matthias Ruth (1993), Integrating Economics, Ecology, and Thermodynamics [24]

End matter


  1. Parmenides vs Heraclitus – Hmolpedia 2020.
  2. Thims, Libb. (2020). Human Chemical Thermodynamics — Chemical Thermodynamics Applied to the Humanities: Meaning, Morality, Purpose; Sociology, Economics; History, Philosophy, Government, Anthropology, Politics, Business, Jurisprudence; Religion, Relationships, Warfare, and Love (pdf). Publisher.
  3. Maupertuis-Diderot debate – Hmolpedia 2020.
  4. Elective Affinities (enemies) – Hmolpedia 2020.
  5. Elective Affinities (admirers) – Hmolpedia 2020.
  6. Whewell-Coleridge debate – Hmolpedia 2020.
  7. 1860 Oxford evolution debate – Wikipedia.
  8. Libb Thims (attack) – Hmolpedia 2020.
  9. Boltzmann, Arthur. (1906). “Demonstration, that Schopenhauer was a Mindless, Ignorant, Spreader of Nonsense”. Draft Talk.
  10. Buchwald, Jed Z. (1993). “Electrodynamics in Context: Object States, Laboratory Practice, and Anti-Romanticism”, in: Hermann von Helmholtz and the Foundations of Nineteenth-Century Science (editor: David Cahan) (§8:334-73, esp pgs. 370-72). University of California Press.
  11. Horz, Herbert. (1982). “Helmholtz and Boltzmann”, in: Ludwig Boltzmann. Internationale tagung anlasslich des 756. Jahrestages seines todes 5-8 Sep 1981. Ausgewahlte Abhandlungen (= Ludwig Boltzmann Gesamtausgabe, band 8) (editors: Roman Sexl and John Blackmore) (pgs. 191-205, esp. 200) Graz: Akademische Druck- undVerlagsanstalt; Braunschweig aund Weisbaden: Friedrich Vieweg & Sohn.
  12. Tyndall-Stewart-Tait debate – Hmolpedia 2020.
  13. What is entropy? – Hmolpedia 2020.
  14. Scopes Trial – Wikipedia.
  15. Harvard Pareto circle – Hmolpedia 2020.
  16. Jeans vs Donnan debate – Hmolpedia 2020.
  17. Bridgman paradox – Hmolpedia 2020.
  18. Reductionist anti-reductionist debate – Hmolpedia 2020.
  19. Rossini debate – Hmolpedia 2020.
  20. Moriarty-Thims debate – Hmolpedia 2020.
  21. Bill Nye vs Ken Ham debate – Wikipedia.
  22. Molecules to man evolution – Hmolpedia 2020.
  23. Thims, Libb, et al. (2020). “Boltzmann entropy (J/K) vs Shannon entropy (bits)” (YT), End Thermodynamics 2.0 conference session, Q&A dialogue, Jun 22; Human Chemistry 101, Jun 29.
  24. Ruth, Matthias. (1993). Integrating Economics, Ecology, and Thermodynamics. Springer.

External links

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